Drugs or Demons - Neither Mix with Children > Man murders his children because of QAnon conspiracy

 

Matthew Coleman, QAnon dad charged with slaughtering his kids, is ‘nearly incomprehensible’ behind bars as trial reaches deadline

By 

Steve Helling

Published Feb. 6, 2025, 7:43 a.m.                   

Matthew Taylor Coleman, the California QAnon follower accused of killing his two small children with a speargun, is still incompetent to stand trial, his attorneys say — and they have only days to agree to a treatment plan for him.

According to documents filed in federal court last month, attorneys on both sides have repeatedly asked the court to extend the deadlines for trial, because the 43-year-old is unable to help prepare his own defense.

The next hearing is on Feb. 18, and the judge has said there will be no more extensions in the case.

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Attorneys representing California QAnon follower Matthew Taylor Coleman, 43, who allegedly killed his two small children with a speargun, say he is still incompetent to stand trial.

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Feds are noting that there has been no discernible progress with Coleman’s mental health in the past several months.

Coleman has repeatedly tried to mutilate himself in federal lockup — cutting himself with a razor, diving headfirst into a toilet, punching himself in the face and repeatedly slamming his head against the floor, according to court records.

These are fairly typical signs of demonic possession. I'm assuming he doesn't get a lot of drugs in lockup, but that might be naive.

Coleman, who allegedly slaughtered Kaleo, 2, and Roxy, 10 months, in 2021 because he believed they had serpent DNA, is under constant observation — and authorities have started medicating him against his will, according to court records.

He has been medicated since May.

The Post has learned that Coleman has limited contact with his family — and when they talk, the former surf instructor is nearly incomprehensible.

“He rambles a lot,” said a Coleman family member. “And it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Something has happened, but he’s not the man we know and love. I don’t know what switched.”

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The Post has learned that Coleman has limited contact with his family — and when they talk, the former surf instructor is nearly incomprehensible.

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On Aug. 7, 2021, Coleman was packing for a family trip with his wife, Abby, when authorities say he abruptly and wordlessly put the two kids into his van and drove away. Coleman took his kids over the border into Mexico and stayed at a resort hotel for two days.

Then, investigators say, he drove his kids to a nearby farm, where he stabbed them both with a spearfishing gun. A farmer made the grim discovery within an hour of the killings.

Coleman was arrested as he attempted to re-enter the US.

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The next hearing will take place on Feb. 18, and there will be no more extensions in the case.

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He has been charged with two counts of murdering US nationals on foreign soil.

When Coleman was arrested, he allegedly told the feds he killed his kids because he had been convinced by the QAnon conspiracy theory that they possessed serpent DNA and needed to be killed to protect the human race, according to a 30-page search warrant application released at the time.

Sometimes rambling incoherently, Coleman allegedly told FBI agents that he was “seeing all the pieces being decoded like ‘The Matrix,’ and that he was Neo,” the movie’s main character.

“He said visions and signs revealed his wife, A.C. [Abby Coleman], possessed serpent DNA ([He] mentioned that he was not sure if his wife was a shapeshifter) and had passed it onto his children and that all things were pointing to the idea that his children have corrupted DNA that will spread if something is not done about it,” reads the affidavit.

After Coleman’s arrest, his wife, Abby, left California and returned to her home state of Texas, where she currently lives, surrounded by her family. She has not yet filed for divorce, but the family source tells The Post that she is trying to pick up the pieces of her life.

“Obviously what she had is now gone forever, and she’s been dealing with that for more than three years,” says the source. “But she’ll never be the same. It’s still very sad.”

A court-appointed attorney for Coleman did not respond to a request for comment.

Please pray for Abby to heal and receive comfort.

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Islam - Current Day > Insane Mohammad hacks Mom and Sis to pieces, injures 24 people including police with acid

..

Prayagraj: ‘ISIS inspired’ Mohammad Arif chops mother and sister

into pieces giving cries of ‘Allah Hu Akbar’, sets fire to his house,

attacks cops with acid

Why do I think all devout Muslims are insane?

OpIndia, July 21, 2023:

In a shocking case in Prayagraj, a man named Mohammad Arif (35) murdered his mother and sister using an axe. The accused gave the Islamic war cry “Allah hu Akbar” while committing the murders. His father and nephew too were seriously injured in the attack as Mohammad Arif tried to murder other members of his family.

After the murders, Arif set fire to the house.

Arif’s elder brother, Mohammad Azam, who managed to save himself, reportedly said that the former held radical views. “Arif held radical views. He was shouting ‘Allah hu Akbar’ while killing his mother and sister,” Mohammad Azam, brother of accused said. A video doing the rounds on social media shows Arif walking on the balcony with a black flag.

The accused pelted stones at the police upon their arrival. He also hurled on them 250 glass bottles filled with acid, and set fire to the house using the gas cylinder. The police had to release tear gas in order to bring Arif into their control. It was only after 2.5 hours of struggle that the police could catch hold of the radical. More than 24 people were reportedly injured in the acid attack and stone pelting.

It has come to light that Mohammad Arif used to watch ISIS videos and read books about the terrorist organisation. He had hatched a conspiracy to launch the attack almost a week ago. Arif told his brother Azam to vacate the house and live in another house which was built nearby. When Azam and other family members refused to leave, Arif chopped his mother and sister into pieces.

His elder brother Mohammad Azam reportedly said that Arif had help from two of his friends. He intended to finish the entire family and had carried with him a knife, sword, daggar [sic], chain, and acid….

Sister Maureen Turlish, a Voice for Sex Abuse Victims, Dies at 79

The story of a true heroine

Sister Maureen Paul Turlish speaking at a news conference in Philadelphia about the sex-abuse scandal in the Catholic Church. Next to her is Arthur Baselice, the father of a victim. Credit Matt Rourke/Associated Press

By Sam Roberts

Sister Maureen Paul Turlish, a tenacious advocate for survivors of childhood sexual abuse by Roman Catholic clergymen, died on July 18 in Cincinnati. She was 79.

The cause was viral encephalitis, Paul Turlish, her brother and only immediate survivor, said.

While she had an abiding concern for children, articles in The Boston Globe and elsewhere beginning in 2002 that explored the abuse of minors by priests transformed her into one of the few religious sisters to publicly protest what she denounced as a “conspiracy, collusion and cover-up” by her church’s hierarchy.

“At the time, she was the only religious woman that would publicly stand up for this issue,” the Rev. Thomas P. Doyle, a canon lawyer and advocate for victims of clergy sexual abuse, was quoted as saying by her order, the Sisters of Notre Dame de Namur.

Sister Maureen took to the picket line demanding compensation for victims and an extension of lapsed deadlines to prosecute predators and to lodge civil claims against them. She wrote letters to newspapers, initially under a pen name. She then abandoned anonymity as a founding member of the National Survivor Advocates Coalition and Catholic Whistleblowers.

Among the founders were other nuns, priests, former clerics, a monsignor and Father Doyle.

After the scandal began to spread in 2002, the Catholic Church in the United States instituted a zero-tolerance policy and imposed a number of programs to prevent further sexual abuse by priests.

In 2007, Sister Maureen and her fellow advocates successfully lobbied to lift the two-year statute of limitations on sexual abuse claims in Delaware and to eliminate time limits on civil suits and criminal penalties involving sexual abuse of children. The legislation generated more than 150 new claims and prompted the Diocese of Wilmington to declare bankruptcy.

Even as she denounced how the church had handled the scandal, Sister Maureen remained a committed, if disillusioned, Catholic. In an address in 2011 to dissident Catholics at Chestnut Hill College, a Catholic institution in Philadelphia, she said:

“No longer am I the person I used to be, even 10 or 12 years ago, and although I cannot compare my loss with the loss suffered by victims of childhood sexual abuse, there is, nevertheless, loss.”

She added: “Something has been taken from me, as it has been taken from every member of the people of God. A part of me has died.”

Maureen Anne Turlish was born in Philadelphia on July 5, 1939 to Paul and Mary (Dunn) Turlish. Her mother worked in a South Philadelphia brewery. Her father was president of Local 6 of the Bakery and Confectionery Workers Union and died of a heart attack at the bargaining table in 1975.

She was 9 years old when she took her first turn on the picket line, joining her father during a strike at the Good & Plenty candy factory, she recalled. Her first exposure to the Sisters of Notre Dame was through her art teacher in high school. Her father insisted that she wait until she was 21 before becoming a nun.

After working as a secretary at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, she entered a convent in Maryland in 1960 and took her vows in 1963. She added the name Paul in memory of her father.

Sister Maureen earned a bachelor’s degree in education from Trinity College in Washington (now Trinity Washington University) in 1965 and a master’s in art education from the University of Maryland. She became an art teacher and headed the fine arts department at St. Elizabeth High School in Wilmington.

She had retired from teaching and, until being injured in an automobile accident this year, was living at her order’s Mount Notre Dame campus in Cincinnati, where she was caring for elderly nuns.

In 2003, galvanized by the growing outcry over sexual abuse by priests and the church’s hesitant early response but reluctant to go public, she wrote several letters to The New York Times under the name Sister M. Immaculata Dunn from Valley Forge, Pa., according to Robert Hoatson, a former priest and a member of Catholic Whistleblowers.

(Mr. Hoatson’s disclosure contradicted a correction published by The Times later that year that quoted Catholic officials in Pennsylvania as saying that the letter-writer as named was not a nun.)

One “Sister Immaculata” letter expressed doubt that church leaders had the will to remove priests who were pedophiles or had sexually abused women, including nuns.

“The church was going nuts about it because they couldn’t find Sister M. Immaculata Dunn,” Mr. Hoatson said in Global Sisters Report, a project of the newspaper The National Catholic Reporter.

Established to support whistle-blowers and victims of sexual abuse, the group pressed to open diocesan files on abuse cases, remove bishops who obstructed justice and organize a global conference of survivors and church leaders.

“What is truly blasphemous and should be deeply offensive to all,” Sister Maureen said in her speech at Chesnut Hill College, “is that so many children could have been spared a lifetime of agony brought on by sexual abuse but for the callous behavior of enabling church officials who shuffled sexual predators around with abandon, instead of calling the police.”

In 2008, she wrote on BishopAccountability.org, which documents the church scandal and advocates for victims, “The sexual abuse of a child by a minister, priest or any religious figure is the most heinous and reprehensible of crimes, and it is called incest for good reason when it occurs in what is often described as the Family of God, the Church.”

But it is not incest, I believe, because the perpetrators are not really Family of God, they are impostors and intruders, and they will have a sorrowful time standing before Jesus Christ.

Nevertheless, Thank you Sister Maureen for boldly being a voice for the voiceless. I'm sure you were frequently under considerable duress to keep your mouth shut. But you persevered! May the Lord bless you richly.

The Astonishing Conspiracy to Cover Up the Great Belgium Pedophile Ring

The Great Belgium Pedophile/Torture/Murder Scandal and Its Cover-up Part II is easily the most read post on this blog and for good reason. It is a simply astonishing story of hardly believable evil in the highest circles of Belgian society. 

The video below is a very well made documentary by a BBC investigative reporter that will astonish you in the continuing saga of blatant cover-ups and the complicity of the police, judiciary and media.

The reporter suggest very strongly that the pedophile ring was still active in 2002 when she made this documentary. I would be surprised if it is not still active in kidnapping, torturing, raping and murdering young girls even today.

The last point I want to make is that Belgians appear to have believed the propaganda put forward by the government and media and so have turned a blind eye to the horrible abuse that has happened which makes it all the easier for it to continue.

Belgium's X-Files   video 44:25

What follows below is a series of questions and answers between Olenka Frankiel, the documentary reporter and some people who have watched the video. I haven't extruded the frivolous but there is still a lot of fascinating information you might find worth reading.

Thank you Olenka for giving these children a voice!

Belgium's X-Files: an Olenka Frenkiel investigation

Olenka Frenkiel answers a selection of your e-mails

Q I was wondering if it was not possible that Europe's police forces put pressure on the Belgium government. I always hear of concerted busts of paedophile rings in Europe. And if the police forces cannot do so could the European Union not step in and force them to solve paedophilia in Belgium? 

Suzan Demirates, England

A One might have thought so but you enter a marshmallowy world when you try to talk to these Euro institutions. They can't even offer me standardised statistics on missing children throughout Europe comparing country by country. I would have thought that might be step one in establishing whether Belgium is different or not. 

Olenka Frenkiel

  Why do I have to look to BBC television to see things

that nobody wants to say in Belgium

Karel Goegebuer 

Q Why do I have to look to BBC television to see things that nobody want to say in Belgium. Why are the victims of Dutroux helped by a Dutch television station and not by Belgian Government? Why do we have a minister Verwilgen in Belgium who is afraid of saying anything? It is good that other people who are in the Belgian government cannot harm or say anything! Thank you for that. 

Karel Goegebuer, Belgium

A Thank you for your email. Perhaps this is one good outcome of "globalization" - 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q What of the two girls found alive? Do they not have any damning testimony? Well done on the programme by the way. 

Jeff Evans, UK

A Thanks. The two living girls were drugged for most of the time they were in the cellar and do not remember events very clearly. Rohypnol, the date rape drug, was a favourite drug of Dutroux when he abducted children. He even murdered a former accomplice by giving him rohypnol and then burying him alive. His body was found with earth in the lungs.

Laetitia the older survivor remembers Sabine trying to persuade her to play a computer game, which Dutroux had provided but she was too sleepy. They both told police Dutroux had raped them repeatedly - as for anyone else, it's not clear. Laetitia was only there for just over a week. They will probably be called to testify if and when Dutroux eventually comes to trial. An excellent little documentary on Laetitia was made by Dutch TV, which showed she had received no counselling or psychological help after being released. A Dutch businesswoman has now taken up her case and is paying for help and for her continued education. I spoke to both girls but they have shied away from publicity and I didn't want to press them. 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q I have just seen the BBC programme, and am of course horrified by the apparent mishandling of the 'X' files case. Is it possible to have a more extensive media investigation of the claims and the many unexplained deaths of witnesses in the case? Given the public attitude in the UK towards paedophilia, could an approach not be made to a major newspaper here so that an adequate investigation of all of the threads of the case can be undertaken? 

Andy Ross, UK

A Well I wrote the article in the Observer last Sunday - they were really keen on the piece. And I have a lot more information about this but there's a limit to how much you can cram into 45 minutes. There's enough here for a book. Maybe you could write it? 

Olenka Frenkiel

  The truth is that those journalists who tell the story complain that they have been harassed, sacked, threatened and many say they have been forced to stop reporting on this issue to continue working

Olenka Frenkiel 

Q The programme seemed to imply that at least one TV channel was either directly or indirectly trying to discredit the suggestions that Dutroux was not working alone. Are there countervailing opinions in the media? Would, for instance, something like your own programme have ever been made in Belgium?

Mark Bertenshaw, UK

A Yes there is a power struggle between the two views. I have had emails from Belgians who say "Oh no not this again" and others who've said - "why do we have to wait for foreigners to tell the truth about our country. Why don't our own networks tell this story? The truth is that those journalists who tell the story complain that they have been harassed, sacked, threatened and many say they have been forced to stop reporting on this issue to continue working. There is one rival programme on RTBF that has occasionally tried to tell the other side (my side) of the story but theirs has been a losing battle. I cannot allege a conspiracy in Au Nom de La Loi but I can say that they knowingly misrepresented Regina Louf as a lying fantasist who had unfairly accused her innocent parents of giving her away for sex as a child. They knew Regina's allegations were true as the parents and the abuser had already admitted this to the police and the programme makers knew this. Why they chose to misrepresent her? I don't know. Why they chose to make a programme claiming Nihoul was innocent? I don't know. Why they devoted another programme to "proving" that Dutroux was an isolated pervert? I don't know.

Olenka Frenkiel

Q Have there been any discussions towards setting up an authority that can work between countries in the pursuit of bringing to justice the members of these rings of abusers. We are always seeking to put the safety of our children above all else. The time is now to put the actions in place instead of the empty words. 

Hugh Aitkin, UK

A Yes there are lots of organisations, which claim to deal with missing children. But ask them if, for example they have properly collected standardised figures for European countries, comparing like with like allowing us to see which country has the worst record and which the best - none of them can provide this. Belgium, Holland, France - all have huge police departments devoted to this problem - there's something in Brussels, something in The Hague, there's Interpol etc. But not one of them has allocated the public funding they receive to this simple task of collating good information. That to me is a scandal. 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q How is holding Dutroux in what appears to be "protective custody" compatible with The European Convention on Human Rights - i.e. detention without trial? Have the parents no further appeal to European Court of Human Rights? 

Peter Williamson, UK

A The European convention says a "reasonable time" must not be exceeded in jail without trial. It is now six years - that is stretching it a bit. The rules are, you have to exhaust the legal system in your own country before you can go to Europe. That has yet to play itself out both for the Russos and Regina Louf and the policemen involved. The problem for them is that the longer it is dragged out, the more costly the legal fees and they just don't have the resources for years and years of litigation. But they are trying. 

Olenka Frenkiel

  Since the Belgian government and establishment are clearly implicated, isn't it time that the much-vaunted EU Europol became involved

Brian Singleton 

Q What an absolutely rational and compelling programme. Since the Belgian government and establishment are clearly implicated, isn't it time that the much-vaunted EU Europol became involved and carried out an independent investigation? 

Brian Singleton, UK

A Good luck. They can't even tell me how Belgium's missing children record compares with that of other countries. I won't hold my breath. 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q I was wondering if it was not possible that Europe's police forces put pressure on the Belgium government. I always hear of concerted busts of paedophile rings in Europe. And if the police forces cannot do so could the European Union not step in and force them to solve paedophilia in Belgium? 

Suzan Demirates, England

A One might have thought so but you enter a marshmallowy world when you try to talk to these Euro instritutions. They can't even offer me standardised statistics on missing children throughout Europe comparing country by country. I would have thought that might be step one in establishing whether Belgium is different or not. 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q One obvious thought strikes me: Why has nobody sat down with the surviving girl(s) and shown them photos of all politicians serving at that time - to see if any faces ring a bell? 

Paul Dunwell, UK

A The two surviving girls will be witnesses if Dutroux comes to trial so it is difficult to interview them as they have generally refused to discuss details of their incarceration. The other problem is that Dutroux kept his victims almost permanently anaesthetized. His drug of choice was rohypnol the date rape drug that he administered as soon as they were abducted and kept topping up. Consequently their memories are hazy.

Besides the police did start to do that with the X witnesses but their bosses have now dismissed all the progress they made as useless. The authorities do have the names of those who are identified by victims. So do I. We cannot publish them because we don't have the proof and could therefore be sued for libel especially as the Procureur General has dismissed the allegations as nonsense or fantasy. But the evidence against 3 of them is quite strong according to the police to whom I spoke - but they of-course are not allowed to continue with the investigation. 

Olenka Frenkiel

  What I don't understand is why there has not been

more uproar about this in Belgium

Michael 

Q What I have read has absolutely made my blood boil. What I don't understand is why there has not been more uproar about this in Belgium? Do the Belgian people not care, do they find it an embarrassment and want to just forget about it? Politicians are usually very quick to demand inquiries when there has been a foul-up by the police, why not now? 

Michael, Dublin, Ireland

A They seem to suffer from dutroux fatigue and an indignation that their country is now known as a pedophile's haven. They were outraged in 1996 and 1997 when they marched on Brussels. But they've had enough. They're fed up with it and no longer really care. They also are confused. They don't any more know whom to believe. 

Olenka Frenkiel

A They seem to suffer from dutroux fatigue and an indignation that their country is now known as a pedophile's haven. They were outraged in 1996 and 1997 when they marched on Brussels. But they've had enough. They're fed up with it and no longer really care. They also are confused. They don't any more know whom to believe. 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q Excellent programme. Do you think there are any lessons for the UK Policing particularly in relation to the independence of investigations and political or judicial influence of the police? 

Stuart Hyde, UK

A After my research I strongly believe that our criminal justice system is more effective and accountable in Britain than in Belgium. But we have had our pedophile rings in Britain which have also been ignored and uninvestigated by police and social services. I refer you to the excellent Newsnight programme a year or so ago which exposed such a ring in Liverpool and forced the authorities to stop ignoring the testimonies they had had for years. Since the programme, which elicited frank confessions from some of the perpetrators, they have been prosecuted. Thanks for getting in touch. 

Olenka Frenkiel

As a social worker I am utterly horrified about the apparent mismanagement of this investigation and the implications about the justice system in Belgium. Totally shocked and dismayed. 

Sian McKinnon, Scotland

  It is demoralising to think that the rights we hold as sacred

almost can be so easily disregarded

Anber Raz 

I watched this investigative programme with great unease. It's frustrating to think that this form of corruption could exist on such a large scale, concerning such an horrific crime, yet there is nothing that can be done about it. We are not as free, democratic as we think. It is demoralising to think that the rights we hold as sacred almost can be so easily disregarded. My deepest sympathies go to the parents of these girls along with a hope that this investigation will encourage people to lobby the Belgian government to take action. 

Anber Raz, UK

Well, I've been left absolutely shell-shocked after watching you're programme. Unfortunately words aren't enough but it is clear to see that Belgium is protecting it's powerful which makes theses crimes even more scary. I'd also just like to say how much I admire the bravery of Regina. Thank you. 

Mark Beecher, England

Firstly I'd just like to congratulate you on an excellent report, which asked some urgent if awkward questions. I would like to ask why, do you believe, child abuse, as sadistic and murderous as that described by the Xs, continues, seemingly unchallenged in a civilised society? 

Elizabeth Scott, UK

You commented on various people who were going to tell the police about the rapists...then they died before they got a chance. Did the police ever look into these cases? Did they just dismiss them? Did they not think maybe there was a link? 

Clare Knight, England

  Thank you once again and lets not forget the girls

Vivienne Boon 

I just want to thank you for covering this story again. It should not be forgotten, but the longer these cases go on the more passive people become. Can we at least make sure that when the national press in the country are telling as many lies as the officials, the foreign press keep on hammering to get the truth...Thank you once again and lets not forget the girls. 

Vivienne Boon, Holland

Could you not get the European court to take over the investigation of this horrifying case? Whatever you do I wish you good luck as the rest of the world can surely have no faith in the Belgian justice system now. 

Pekelbe, UK

I am from Belgium and like all respectable people there I am horrified by the Dutroux scandal. We have not forgotten Julie, Melissa and all the other children who have disappeared or were abused or killed. We all hope that justice will be done one day, and that the guilty - whoever they are - will be punished, but what can we do? Maybe more programmes like yours will help... 

Brigitte Descy, UK

I wonder if the truth will come out after the 30-year rule has passed? Congratulations on an excellent documentary. 

Philip de Cadenet, UK

Spawned by the Internet, all recent cases of child exploitation have proved to be communal in nature. As a tradesman I looked at the door in the cellar and recognised a construction that put the builder at the top of his trade and not short of intelligence; did he not imagine what this was for or was he at least one of the network? 

Gerry Pope, Ireland

I was the victim of a network in the UK featured by Sarah Macdonald. I was ignored and branded a liar for years. It took the media to shame the authorities into action and finally we got some justice. But only after hundreds more victims. They put us through hell for it. I hope you get some justice much if I can help in any way. 

Shy Keenan, UK

 'We apologise that due to unforeseen circumstances the live interactive forum with Olenka Frenkiel and Marie-Jeanne Van Heeswyck has been cancelled.' This sounds like yet another excuse to withhold information in the 'Detroux' investigation. Your programme was much appreciated and threw some fresh light on what has been, at the least, yet another demoralising example of the corrupt Belgian legal system. As an Anglophone living in Belgium I welcome investigative reports into what must be one of Belgium's most notorious and obscene miscarriages of justice in recent times. Continue the good work. Nothing is being done here to resolve a story as awful as this one. 

G.Egan, Belgium

There is nothing sinister in the cancellation - there were genuine unforeseen problems. I won't bore you with the details but basically it was my fault. Sorry. 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q What is the feeling among the general population in Belgium now? And will this be an active political issue in an election or is it a cancer that is spread across the system, so no one wants to mention it. 

Liam, Ireland

  There is no doubt among Belgians - that the

Belgian Justice system is seriously flawed

Olenka Frenkiel 

A Hard to know really. My feeling was that they are sick to death of hearing about it. It is said that Belgium is divided between "believers" and "non-believers" - i.e. those who believe Regina Louf and de Baets and those who don't. I felt it rather differently almost every person you ask will volunteer the opinion that something has been covered up, something stinks, something is not normal about the Dutroux affair and the way it has been dealt with. But they have had enough of mystery and conspiracy theory. They no longer have any patience to concentrate on the details and can't bear to listen to any more horror stories.

They feel they can't do anything about it and want to get on with their lives. But there is no doubt among Belgians from a very senior Government advisor I met down to the ordinary citizen - that the Belgian Justice system is seriously flawed. A series of 28 murders in the 1980s, known as the supermarket murders in which 28 people were shot in supermarket car-parks in mafia style hits has never been solved. The shootings had the same signature and some of the guns used were tracked to the gendarmerie. The socialist politician Andre Cools was killed in 1991 and that has never come to trial. As one senior Belgian said to me citing these examples "You must not underestimate how bad Belgian justice is." 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q Couldn't the European Court of Human Rights take up this case? 

Lauren Millar, England

A The lawyers of Dutroux and Michel Martin, his wife have threatened to take his case to the European Court of Human Rights. European law says prisoners cannot be held without trial for more than "a reasonable time" The fact that they have been held without trial for 6 years is stretching that definition.

But I take it your question refers not to Dutroux's human rights but to Regina's. I think the rule there is that you have to have exhausted the law courts of your own country before you can take the case to Europe. The two people who are fighting are Patriek de Baets, (the policeman who first interviewed Regina) and his colleague Aime Bille. If they don't get justice through their own courts they plan to take it to Europe. But the whole process is very expensive for them - the legal fees are punitive. So far they have won all the cases in Belgium. It's just the process is slow because they don't have the funding. 

Olenka Frenkiel

As I watched the programme I felt sick at the thought of what those poor girls, only 2 years younger than myself, endured. If these men are not brought to justice in this life I hope they pay in the next. 

Amy, England

I've just seen the documentary you made about the X-files of those poor children in Belgium. It was a very touching piece of work with a very powerful message. I want to congratulate you and wish you luck on any further investigation. I would also like to send condolences to the parents of those girls, and may their souls rest in peace. Thank you. 

Elizabeth, England

It is always the ordinary person in the street who are prayed on by the officials the rich and the powerful this programme demonstrates just how these people get away with murder until the ordinary man in the street says enough is enough an independent outside of Belgium group should be bought in to investigate the perpetrators of the original crimes and also the people who helped to hide them for as they are as guilty as the perverts.

Rebecca Gourlay, England

  As a Police officer with 22 years service here in England I am

astounded at the treatment of my fellow colleagues in Belgium

Tony Jenkins 

As a Police officer with 22 years service here in England I am astounded at the treatment of my fellow colleagues in Belgium. I don't believe the government here in England could get away with this. Although I don't know the ins and outs of the Belgian matters my gut reaction is that this corruption reaches the highest echelons of the Belgian government. They should be ashamed of their treatment of this investigation! When corruption reaches these levels it is unlikely those poor parents will ever find the truth, but I wish them well 

Tony Jenkins, England

This was a shocking report on the investigation (or the lack of it) in the Dutroux affaire. We got more information from you than we EVER got from Belgian media. We feel betrayed by the Belgian media and politicians who apparently hope that the entire story will be forgotten. 

Przemko Tylzanowski & Kristin Verschueren, Belgium

I find it odd that the Belgian authorities discount the possibility of a network particularly in the light of the recent news that a network appears to have been operating in Auxerre in France where from memory 18 young women have disappeared and two investigating magistrates have been heavily criticised and files have gone missing! 

Stephen, England

It seems obvious that someone doesn't want the truth to come out. Cover up? I think so, anyone with their eyes open must think so. If this is the case, then surely there are powerful people in the Government, Justice, and Police involved in child abuse in Belgium. Maybe it is time that the European Union gets involved. Also, who is to say that what has happened in Belgium may also have happened in other countries, the UK included. Thank you for showing the programme, and I hope the children, their parents, and Belgium eventually get some justice. 

Cenwyn Jones, UK

Could not the unfortunate parents take the matter to the European Court? If money is a problem, could not a fund be set up to which I would gladly contribute? 

John Hart, England

I had a pen friend in Ghent at the same time the abductions happened and he worked in the police force. He suddenly stopped writing. It seemed a little odd as we had been writing a lot. I just wonder if he was involved? 

Nessa Rumens, UK

I cannot believe that such an evil has gone unpunished! 20 people died mysteriously and yet nothing has been uncovered. I shudder with fear at the children that go missing in Belgium and around the world. It is a scandal and you should not give up - KEEP SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH! 

Karen Balman, England

When a country's judicial system seems incapable of investigating a straightforward case - forensic evidence should even now, still be possible, and certainly in this country I suspect that exhumation would still deliver forensic evidence. If the Belgians cannot collect such evidence, can the citizens sue for breach of their human rights based on the incompetence of their government, and have the case investigated by an independent authority, does it make any sense to form a European criminal investigation unit?

Every country has had its problems - remember when the newly appointed Chief of Police came in and sacked the whole of the Manchester Fraud squad? With regard to sacking a magistrate that had dinner with victims and supported their fund raising, I agree this was unwise, but a conflict of interest is not necessarily proven. No one can be more partial than the parents of the victims, but surely they only want to see the right people brought to justice, not any person at any cost. In view of the public outcry, I think the Belgians should reinstate the Magistrate. 

Fay Green, UK

  I find it really terrible that a major country like Belgium

should hide investigation into such a sick network

V B Rumsey 

Good luck with your investigation. I find it really terrible that a major country like Belgium should hide investigation into such a sick network. Come on, Belgium, wake up and expose the truth. 

V B Rumsey, England

Thank you for a clear-sighted report of a very murky area. Because I have had to listen to the testimonies of people who have experienced similar networks in the UK, I very much value airtime given to saying things, which are not palatable to many. Good wishes, and thanks 

Julian Turner, UK

I am utterly disgusted that a country as developed as Belgium could allow such a travesty to happen. The Belgian people must be terrified for the safety of their children. Clearly this is a massive cover up in order to protect people whom the government of Belgium feels are worthy of such protection. I am utterly horrified by this, and feel that surely there is something that other countries within Europe can do to investigate this terrible cover up 

Stu Briscoe, UK

I found the programme extremely interesting and disturbing. What I don't understand is why most Belgians seem to accept the situation after their initial strong protest. Doesn't the desire to protect their own children over ride all other concerns? 

Eleanor Dobson, UK

Q What your investigation failed (or wasn't allowed) to mention that a growing number of issues have arisen concerning possible links between the alleged protection of Dutroux et al & the Belgian Royal Family. In 2000 a French journalist published a book allegedly proving links between paedophile networks & the Royal Family of Belgium, It was of course outlawed to be published here & was hushed up surprisingly quickly. 

Steve McMillan, Belgium

  The problems with the allegations against the King are that they are not very well substantiated and we would not want to accuse anyone, King or not, of such a crime unless there were substantial evidence

Olenka Frenkiel 

A We are aware of the book. There were many aspects of the case that weren't squeezed in to the 45 minutes we are allocated. There was a lot to explain to a British audience who know almost nothing about the case. So we left a lot of extremely strong material out - simple because we could not fit it in. The problems with the allegations against the King are that they are not very well substantiated and we would not want to accuse anyone, King or not, of such a crime unless there were substantial evidence.

I have asked many people on all sides of the case about the allegations against the King. Even among those who are convinced of a network involving very senior Belgians - even among those who believe there has been a cover up - there are very few whom the Nicholas book convinces and some even fear it may be a red herring deliberately planted into the story to discredit the other stronger evidence. Where you have a cover-up, conspiracy theories proliferate. But if I had an extra 30 minutes to add to the programme, the material about the Royal family would not make it. 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q Another investigation on the Dutroux affair? Fair enough.... unfortunately this reporter is simply showing her vision of this terrible affair...every other journalist has his "truth" about this and conclusions are always different though. Although this time it gets seriously on my nerves: where did this reporter found out this figure about missing children in Belgium? Kidnapping kids aren't our favourite national sport, there are no more children disappearing than in any other civilised country and beside amongst the figure she gave, many of them are illegal minor immigrants that vanished away because of foreign mafia networks. Please stop this crap about Belgium. Besides the Dutroux's trial is planned. 

Thierry Goffeau, Brussels

A I'm sorry you didn't like the programme. You may be very familiar with the various journalists' views in Belgium but the British have been spared this story. Far from "another story about Dutroux" in Britain the story has hardly been told at all. It was all-new to British viewers and they were shocked. The fact that Belgians have grown so complacent about the hopeless inefficiency of their justice system is not a recommendation.

These are the facts. There is still no date for the Dutroux trial. It was planned for this year but I was told that it now wouldn't be before 2003. The figure for missing children was obtained from Child Focus and the Belgian police. There are no standardised figures in Europe relating to child disappearances allowing one to compare country with country so it impossible to say whether the problem is more severe in Belgium than in other countries. What difference does it make that many of the children are immigrant and are the prey of international traffickers. They are still children and they still "disappear". I spent a long time trying to get some sense out of the Belgians about their missing children numbers. This was the information they gave me. 

Olenka Frenkiel

Q Olenka, I am filled with wonder and awe that having come so far in your investigations and run up against the brick wall of self-defence the ruling class has put in your path - you have not yourself gone quite mad. I must also say that having been molested myself as I child, I can only now assume I was immensely shrewd, at the age of 9, in deciding that any attempt on my part to tell anyone about the events would only lead to more suffering for me because, as I told myself, 'no one will believe you, they'll call you a liar and hurt you." What a clever kid. Now - here we are - all lining up to be told what to do by Brussels!!! I'm overwhelmed at the crass stupidity of us all! Congratulations on your splendid work -you will of course give up someday - as we all do - and for the usual reasons - no one gives a damn! Bravo! 

Viv, England

A Thank you. You're right I was tempted many times to "give-up". It is nice to know there's someone out there who appreciates it. That is what keeps us going. Many people just don't want to know. 

Olenka Frenkiel

  I get the strong impression that it's only sensationalism

and very little investigation

Bart Luyckx 

Q I find it bewildering that a BBC reporter has so much belief in what people claim to know (and even uses fiction to support it) instead of checking the facts. Your programme contains only the most sensational (largely unsubstantiated) stories and very little facts. You even fail to mention that Nihoul will be up for trial shortly, together with Dutroux and several others. I get the strong impression that it's only sensationalism and very little investigation. I thought I would learn something new; instead I get disappointed over the new BBC standards for investigative journalism. Nice job! 

Bart Luyckx, Belgium

A I'm sorry you felt that way Bart. As I understand it there is no decision yet as to whether Nihoul will come to trial. So far it is only a recommendation by the Procureur du Roi Bourlet that Nihoul should be taken to court. Those among the judiciary who disagree with Bourlet - among whom I have some informed sources - claim that he will not come to court for the Dutroux affair. We will see. You may have your views about this case but you cannot deny there are many unanswered questions, which show Belgium in rather a poor light. And how do you explain the campaign against Regina Louf on RTBF? They showed her parents as victims of a "mythomane" when they knew her parents and her abuser had already confessed to the police that she had been abused regularly as a child. The programme makers have admitted this to me though they have never admitted this to their own audience or attempted to rectify the false impression they presented. Is this a preferable form of journalism to the one you saw on Sunday night? 

Olenka Frenkiel

It is all too common for those in high places to get away with activities like this. The fact that the citizens of Belgium have given up is testimony enough of the corruption of the state. 

Adam McIntosh, USA

Well-done Olenka and the BBC for such a frank but disturbing documentary. I hope now something will be done about this. I am convinced it goes on the world over but people's reluctance to face the truth allows it to go on with impunity. 

Mark, UK

Brilliant piece of reporting but we have to have answers and if the corruption is at the top of a country it must be routed out or it will continue lies breed lies and for deceit there has to be trust please don't give up the fight. 

Alan Mikkelson, England

Broken Hearted. Why do we see the country at the centre of European power and "justice" and they cannot smash these filthy paedophile rings. The EU has to hammer this scourge over all of Europe. 

Alan Hughes, Scotland

  I want to express my deep sympathy to the parents of the murdered children, and hope they know that some of their

fellow countrymen haven't turned their back on them

Marianne De Leye 

Congratulations with the programme on the Belgian X-files. Personally I am convinced of the existence of networks. What remains a mystery to me is why the Belgian public, who marched with hundred thousands in protest only a few years ago, can now be so forgetful and indifferent. I want to express my deep sympathy to the parents of the murdered children, and hope they know that some of their fellow countrymen haven't turned their back on them. 

Marianne De Leye, Belgium

A recent survey conducted showed Belgium to be second only to Italy that in Antwerp exists a red light district holding many women from Eastern Europe "prisoner". I say prisoner, because many of them do not speak Dutch or French and have no viable means to live other than prostitution. The hell these women go through are just so brutal. I witnessed several times while buying groceries near my flat, women being beaten by their pimps. I am thankful that I "believe" in my country's system of justice. I can only pray and cry for those children that suffered.... 

Lars, Sweden

I hope there will one day be a sequel to this programme, which will contribute to closure of the file. Thanks and well done. 

Adam Watson Brown, Belgium

  I have cried as if my mother had told me an

ancient secret she never dared to tell me before

Nic de Potter 

Congratulations Olenika!!! This was a great broadcast. I have cried as if my mother had told me an ancient secret she never dared to tell me before. Unfortunately the networkers' names were not mentioned because of the secrecy of the 'on-going' investigation. Well done to the whole team. Please continue. 

Nic de Potter

Q Your online report states that Regina Louf was one of 11 people to come forward to talk of their harrowing experiences - what do we know of the other ten testimonies? Is there not a great deal more evidence that can be compiled to prosecute this case? 

Sally Jeffrey, UK

A Regina Louf agreed to go public after the police team investigating her claims was dismissed. This has made it easier for independent people, like journalists to investigate her claims and cross-examine her to assess her testimony.

The other "X's" have remained anonymous and Marie-Jeanne Van Heeswyck the journalist who co-wrote the book the "X Files" has talked to some of them and seen their testimonies. They vary. Some are more lurid and macabre, others less so. Some name the same people cited by Regina Louf. But one of them, not Regina, very controversially names Belgium's king. This is obviously very shocking to the Belgians and many have reacted by recoiling from all the X witnesses in blanket disbelief.

Because the investigation was stopped before it got very far, their stories have not been exhaustively checked so it is impossible to say whether they are truthful or correct. What most of them have in common though is the "sex parties". They describe being taken as children to houses, or flats where they were expected to perform sexual acts for adult clients.

As any professional dealing with victims of abuse will tell you, such people can be very damaged and it may be difficult in some cases to know whether what they describe is the truth or a "false memory syndrome". Each has to be assessed individually. Facts have been found to corroborate Regina Louf's story. Whether that would also have been true for the other X's is impossible to say as the investigation was stopped before they could be verified. If you can read French I recommend the book the X Files. 

Olenka Frenkiel

  Would British policemen or magistrates get away without

any sanctions after such sloppy investigations

Nora Prior 

Q Could a scandal like this happen in England or are there safeguards incorporated into the law governing police and justice administration to avoid such cover-ups? Would British policemen or magistrates get away without any sanctions after such sloppy investigations?

Nora Prior, Belgium

It's a question I kept asking myself over and over again as I was working on this. I think we know that in Britain people have got away with organised sexual abuse but usually in institutions, children's homes, schools or churches. The perpetrators have been protected by their organisations. Some of these rings have come out but I'm sure some have gone unexposed.

The first I remember was in 1979/80 the Kincora children's home in Northern Ireland which involved protestant clergy. Then there were the Welsh children's homes, the boarding schools and in Ireland the Catholic church.

There is obviously abuse in families. Newsnight did an incredible film about Liverpool where a family of girls had tried to report the abuse in their estate for years and had been ignored. This was a paedophile ring which neither the social services nor the police would investigate.

The Fred West case too was interesting. It was alleged that many people came to that house and used the children there. But how many others were prosecuted apart from Rose and Fred? There are those in Britain who claim that it could and does happen here.

But I find it hard to believe that once the allegations and the evidence reached the criminal justice system, the chain of events that has unfolded in Belgium could happen here in Britain. I also don't believe a defendant like Dutroux could stay in jail without trial for this long without people asking questions.

The Sarah Payne killer came to trial within 18 months of the crime. And I find it hard to imagine that heads would not roll if police here failed to collect forensic evidence, to send the hairs for analysis, or to test the DNA samples taken from the victims.

For all our faults here and I have reported them for many years, I came to admire the relative simplicity of the British adversarial system as opposed to the European "inquisitorial" system which few people even in Belgium seem to understand and which seems to hold no-one accountable for failure. 

Olenka Frenkiel

  I wish you all the luck in the world to find out about the truth

Peter De Schouwer 

Q Dear BBC, I am happily surprised to see that you are investigating one of so many scandals in this corrupt country. I wish you all the luck in the world to find out about the truth. 

Peter De Schouwer, Belgium

A Thank you for your interest. This story is well known in Belgium, albeit highly controversial. It is strange how little of it has been told here in Britain.